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Offline BitburgAggie_7377
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« Reply #110 on: July 04, 2011, 02:26:19 pm »
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Dang, I'll be glad when my home IP problem gets cleared up  Cool      Looks like I've been missing out on an interesting set of topics since I last logged in the morning of the 1st.

Count me as still among the open minded skeptics.  I'm definitely looking forward to LRL's based on KNOWN scientific principles.  On the other hand, I do know that there very rare occasions when a technological toy actually works even though it violates the principles known at the time the toy is made (in fact figuring out why the toy works leads to uncovering the principles behind it).   But while I might hope that example holds here, the odds are stacked way against it.   On the other hand, working LRLs based on any design or principle aren't going to ever exist if all the people who believe they can exist give up trying.   So I'm all for continued debate and continued r&d and experimentation.   (and for the results being continually challenged).

BA

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Offline fenixdigger
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« Reply #111 on: July 04, 2011, 03:22:23 pm »
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G/D; I'm not mocking (well maybe a little) and for sure not scorning the critics.  Why should I jump through hoops when you can go outside and prove it in 15 mins.

Look, when Carl says something the ink is still wet and I'm outside jumping on it. One of my guys, calls with something, I'm on it before I hang the phone up. Why?? I want to know the truth FOR MYSELF. I do have a problem with lazy people. Always have. I don't understand the reluctance to prove something for yourself. I have NEVER taken someones word for anything. You think you are hard to convince? you are talking to the champ of that. I want to see and do it or it doesn't count. No report or paper is good enough.

I don't know what to tell you other than if you want to prove your self, I'll tell you how. I don't think that's a mocking, scorning, or insult. Basically it's the truth. I know the fear of finding out you were mistaken for so long is a big factor, but ALL of us have to learn things, maybe it's time for you.

**This post not intended to mock, scorn, or insult any reader.

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Offline GoldDigger1950
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« Reply #112 on: July 04, 2011, 03:39:52 pm »
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Quote:Posted by fenixdigger
G/D; I'm not mocking (well maybe a little) and for sure not scorning the critics.  Why should I jump through hoops when you can go outside and prove it in 15 mins.

And I can disprove it in the same amount of time. In fact, I did.

Posted on: July 04, 2011, 11:35:38 PM
Quote:Posted by fenixdigger
Look, when Carl says something the ink is still wet and I'm outside jumping on it. One of my guys, calls with something, I'm on it before I hang the phone up. Why?? I want to know the truth FOR MYSELF. I do have a problem with lazy people. Always have. I don't understand the reluctance to prove something for yourself. I have NEVER taken someones word for anything. You think you are hard to convince? you are talking to the champ of that. I want to see and do it or it doesn't count. No report or paper is good enough.

Why do you presume that the skeptics have not tried it?

By your own admission here, your presence is meant to be argumentative and that is not a sociable thing to do. This forum is meant to be sociable. If you really are coming here just to argue or set some sort of record straight, you are in the wrong place. Go start your own forum for that purpose. In the mean time, let us disagree with you using science while you use your own gut feelings.

Fair enough?

Posted on: July 04, 2011, 11:38:28 PM
Quote:Posted by fenixdigger
I don't know what to tell you other than if you want to prove your self, I'll tell you how. I don't think that's a mocking, scorning, or insult. Basically it's the truth. I know the fear of finding out you were mistaken for so long is a big factor, but ALL of us have to learn things, maybe it's time for you.

Knock it off, mate. I tried dowsing, most likely before you were born. I've seen so called experts fail when tested. It's no wonder you avoid it.

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« Reply #113 on: July 04, 2011, 03:59:41 pm »
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Let me jump ahead here. Dowsing is the use of mental  concentration on a specific target while using a pendulum, rod, or whatever.

Lrls use no mental effort and other arrangements to lock a "signal".  If this is wrong let me know as I am not a dowser.

We are talking a witness (coin, mfd set to a target, what ever simulates a target).We are looking for that mystical

connection between 2 identical elements (see how I switched to scientific terms) (( supposedly a "harmonic" is going on in

a subatomic level due to the freq.of the atoms)). This is a Very small force (remember the initial movement of the rod)

MFDs are supposed to enhance this.

You can do this by placing a silver coin on the ground, 5 fake targets in bags, napkins, or whatever along with 1 silver coin

in the same packaging. Have someone place these from 25ft to 75ft away from the initial sample when you are NOT

looking. Now take your little rod, bent coat hanger, swivel rod, electro-scope, whatever, and walk around the sample,

about 6 ft away from it with the rod level and watch for a reaction. It should be to the 2nd coin. It could be to an  

unknown target so continue around till you pass all the targets. Pretty hard huh ?  If you can't do it, grab someone else

and put the rod in their hand show them how to hold it, tell them it's going to shake and to walk around the sample. I bet

you won't go through 3 people before it works.

Posted on: July 04, 2011, 03:52:54 PM
Well G/D; I thought we were sharing info. I guess it's arguing where you live. Would you get upset if I mentioned anger issues?

This post not intended to mock, scorn, insult, or anger any reader

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« Reply #114 on: July 04, 2011, 04:19:59 pm »
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Quote:Posted by fenixdigger
You can do this by placing a silver coin on the ground, 5 fake targets in bags, napkins, or whatever along with 1 silver coin in the same packaging. Have someone place these from 25ft to 75ft away from the initial sample when you are NOT looking. Now take your little rod, bent coat hanger, swivel rod, electro-scope, whatever, and walk around the sample, about 6 ft away from it with the rod level and watch for a reaction. It should be to the 2nd coin. It could be to an unknown target so continue around till you pass all the targets. Pretty hard huh ?  If you can't do it, grab someone else and put the rod in their hand show them how to hold it, tell them it's going to shake and to walk around the sample. I bet you won't go through 3 people before it works.


Fenix, you just outlined a simple test which, if done properly, is reasonably scientific. The exact same kinda test I use in my challenge, and for which I get ridiculed by True Believers on a regular basis. They can't believe I have the gall to propose such a test for LRLs! And here you are, proposing the exact same thing. Go figure.

And, in fact, I have done this kind of test on experienced LRL users. Not a one of them ever succeeded beyond chance guessing. Bet you can't, either. I could go through 300 people and none of them would do better than chance guessing. You know this as well as I do. So do all the True Believers who ridicule such tests.

Which makes me wonder, why did you propose such a test that no dL'er can possibly pass?




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Offline GoldDigger1950
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« Reply #115 on: July 04, 2011, 04:42:34 pm »
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Quote:Posted by fenixdigger
Well G/D; I thought we were sharing info. I guess it's arguing where you live. Would you get upset if I mentioned anger issues?

This post not intended to mock, scorn, insult, or anger any reader

Not intended to mock? And yet it does. I am not angry. I am a moderator trying to gently moderate you into making logical, rational posts here. Instead, you insist on name calling, insinuation about me being angry and continuing to simply say, "Try it and you will understand." Like some sort of irrational guru. Yes, I called you a name. A guru. Whoop de doo! I have other choice names for you so just be grateful that's the one I chose.

Mate, I am about fed up with your attempts to have a discourse. Discussion is fine. Disagreement is fine. Insisting that others are just too dumb to understand your "airy fairy" type of theories is the issue. LRLs do not work. Period. You cannot prove they do so you try to wipe that bit of blame off on people who you claim have never tried them. You know. Those evil, evil skeptics. I've tried a few. I've opened them, mate. As an engineer, I can tell you in a fully qualified statement, there's nothing in there but junk that cannot possibly help anyone find anything more than an inch from the device.

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« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 04:47:03 pm by GoldDigger1950 »
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« Reply #116 on: July 04, 2011, 07:31:58 pm »
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Uhhh, G/D; What??? Name calling?  Discourse?  Too dumb?  We are definitely having a communication break down.

See this ***I am not angry. I am a moderator trying to gently moderate you into making logical, rational posts here.***

I do not see this, just like you see me doing that.  Let me answer Carl and I'll be right on out of here. You can discourse

on your own.

Carl: Here's the straight of it. That's how we practice with anything new. I can't help what anyone else does or says. I have learned from you about the close secondary targets. What I didn't tell you was the Minelab was on all metal during the random chance test. I never hunt like that. I wanted to slant it for your point as much as I could. Being right does not matter to me. The results that I, and the guys I hunt with, get matter. I'm trying to talk about what goes on in the field, seems it is driving everyone nuts. Seriously what should I do?? Lie about it to keep from catching flak?  Wrong monkey for that. I'm not pushing any devices or trying to talk people into anything. Now G/D thinks I'm calling people stupid for trying to show something. Holy crap. I don't know why your test is so hard to do. I don't know why you haven't seen better results. I'm happy when we hit 40-50% in the field. The variables are different out there. Anyway, catch me on one of the other forums, I'm outta here.
{alt} 

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« Reply #117 on: July 04, 2011, 07:52:25 pm »
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I might change this topic to Black Hole Technologies coz everything keeps disappearing into it,
common sence, members, Patients, sence of Humour, vision, politeness, good will, Judgement. Happiness.

So apart from a few minor things its got alot going for it really has'nt it.

AU

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« Reply #118 on: July 04, 2011, 07:55:49 pm »
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Offline GoldDigger1950
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« Reply #119 on: July 05, 2011, 12:21:56 am »
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Quote:Posted by fenixdigger
Being right does not matter to me.

Oh, yes it does. It surely does.

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