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Offline NihonsilverTopic starter
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« on: August 11, 2009, 06:37:47 pm »
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Hello Folks,

I just read the thread about the Flor do Mar and the claims by Marx. I had to chime in on this topic but decided to start a new thread specifically about the artifacts he sells. All the artifacts that Marx is selling are fakes. I will not go over the falsity of his claims to have picked up treasure off the Flor site as that has been thoroughly covered here and elsewhere. But I will warn everyone that the items that cover the table in his study are indeed fake and I can say that he knows this but still sells them as genuine artifacts from the Flor or other Indonesian wrecks.
 
How do I know? Because I have had all the items I purchased checked by several reputable dealers and they have all confirmed them as modern worthless fakes. I also know a few other people that have had their stuff checked with the same result. He has been told this many times but continues to sell the items even today. There is the proof in addition to the documented evidence of nothing coming off the Flor site. Before posting vicious retorts defending Marx, please have any such items you have purchased checked. I can assure you, you will be as surprised as I was when they are confirmed as being $5 souvenirs. I also bought some coins off him that he claimed were contemporary counterfeit coins from Port Royal and even gave me a signed certificate with this claim. Those coins turned out to be well-known modern fakes out of China. How could Marx, being an expert in this field and having handled thousands of objects from wrecks, not know modern fakes when they are sitting in front of him? Come on guys, he knows.

I bought a lot of stuff from him over a few years having thought Marx was a credible person and great legend like many of you. I thought he was a friend and even travelled with him on two occasions. I do not deny that he has contributed much to marine archeaology and has had some great successes in decades past. I have read many of his books which I find greatly entertaining (though I now view some claims in them with deep suspicion). Sadly, he is now using his reputation to scam people. I find it so disheartening that a man who has done so much for the shipwreck salvage industry has to stoop so low. It makes me wonder what else he has done over the years.

Cornelius, I would love to have a private chat with you regarding your investigation by the Indonesian government into Marx. I have a bit of recent experience there in the salvage industry. There is another investigation into a group with which Marx is involved in which you may be interested.

I want to make it clear that I am not on a campaign to ruin Marx. He is doing an exemplary job of that by himself. My only purpose here is to simply warn people about the artifacts that he sells so they do not get ripped off like I and more than a dozen others I know. Quite a few people already know about this but there are still lots of people buying these items. Help stop this outrage.

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Offline GoldDigger1950
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« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2009, 06:40:52 pm »
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How about doing an extra nine yards and post your proof somewhere. It would be nice to confirm your claims somehow by some means other than testimony which can, of course, be given falsely. What items did you buy? Who tested them? Can they be contacted or are they conveniently dead or without a phone?

Be reasonable. Show the proof. Easy.

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Offline NihonsilverTopic starter
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« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2009, 07:37:26 pm »
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Golddigger,

I thought it easier to simply have you get proof on your own. I think most people on these boards have purchased things from Marx. Just take them to an expert and get them checked. I have had several check mine but they are all located in Japan. Happy to post the details of them but I do not see the point. You can easily do this yourself. I know some people who have had items checked with US dealers so I imagine there are appropriate people in any major city.

I tried to put up photos of things I have bought but the files were too big. I have purchased a total of about 100 items over the years including bronze swords, jade figurines, bi-disks, statues etc. You can see a red coral carving in one photo I have. Marx has been telling people these came off the Flor. If any of you have one, please place it in a glass of water. The chemical dye will leak into the water quite quickly. And these were underwater for 500 years? I have seen these types of items all over Asia in cheap souvenir shops, sometimes exact replicas of what Marx is selling.

The fake coin he sold me saying it was a Port Royal "contemporary fake" is at Dan Sedwick`s dealership. He is the one who alerted me to the coin being a common fake. There were another two other coins I got from Marx where he claimed they were from Port Royal with certs. Dan informed me these were from a completely different wreck but at least they were real though not worth much.

Do you want e-mails, videos? I have it all but the claims by Marx are all common knowledge. Everyone in the business knows he is selling items out of his house and which he frequently gets from a warehouse up North. Many people have bought things. Just check the items that you or someone you know has bought.



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Offline GoldDigger1950
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« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2009, 07:56:08 pm »
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Don't take this the wrong way Nihonsilver because I don't want to start another drawn out discussion over Robert Marx. Common knowledge, your statements here, and any other thing you discuss from your own experiences are not now nor will they ever be facts. They are testimony and no matter how much they trouble you, they are not facts.

All that being said, I do believe you are sincere. What I will never do is condemn Marx on your words alone. Videos, e-mail or anything else you send me or post here could be faked. Not that you WOULD fake them, but they COULD be faked. Just like the coins and other items you have had analyzed.

How on earth did you manage to buy over 100 items before you realized they were fakes? That leads me to believe that you may not have bought them all from Robert Marx. Perhaps you bought them with a certificate that was forged by someone else, not one of Robert's originals. Do you see the problem here with testimony? There are too many questions unanswered. There's passion in your writing, for certain, and that leads me to believe you are sincere but you may also be wrong. The two are not mutually exclusive of one another. I could be wrong. As yet, there's nothing at all to suggest that I am but I certainly COULD be wrong.

I don't want or need you to post proof here in the forms you are suggesting here. If you can somehow provide a reputable museum, reputable coin dealer or some other professional reference that now has the items and trace those items directly back to Robert Marx, again using evidence, I will leap up and support your claims. Otherwise, while believing you are sincere, there is still no tangible proof.

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« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2009, 08:32:02 pm »
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Hello Nihonsilver,

I would like to learn more about this case. Maybe you can please post some pictures / details about the items in question.

Thanks and best wishes,

Christian

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« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2009, 08:14:53 am »
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been following this and i had to chime in,i've meet bob a few times now(just at seminars)found him to be a straight shooter.i'm by know means a expert on atrifacts,not even close.i hope these accusations are false tho,i'd hate to think someone of his stature would do something like selling forgeries.i bought this cross from him at  the dive show earlier this year,came from a ship called the Milagro

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« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2009, 09:47:34 am »
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Golddigger,

Why don't you contact Sedwick Coins cause they are experts and have done many auctions of shipwreck artifacts;

Augi Garcia
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PO BOX 1964 / Winter Park, FL 32790
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Just ask Augi about this. I do know them personally cause have sold an 1801 Spanish bronze cannon to them last year.

So, if Marx is going around selling items and he's 'claiming' these artifacts originated from the FLOR then that's already him admitting that he not only found the Flor but has recovered artifacts from the Flor. Since myself and none of the other 10 divers who were directly involved and on that project are ALL saying we DID NOT find the Flor.. and also the Indonesian Government is saying that the FLOR has NOT been found - what does that say about what Marx is doing here?

TW

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Offline GoldDigger1950
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« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2009, 01:38:01 pm »
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Quote:Posted by TonyWells
Golddigger,

Why don't you contact Sedwick Coins cause they are experts and have done many auctions of shipwreck artifacts;

Augi Garcia
Daniel Frank Sedwick, LLC.
PO BOX 1964 / Winter Park, FL 32790
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Just ask Augi about this. I do know them personally cause have sold an 1801 Spanish bronze cannon to them last year.

So, if Marx is going around selling items and he's 'claiming' these artifacts originated from the FLOR then that's already him admitting that he not only found the Flor but has recovered artifacts from the Flor. Since myself and none of the other 10 divers who were directly involved and on that project are ALL saying we DID NOT find the Flor.. and also the Indonesian Government is saying that the FLOR has NOT been found - what does that say about what Marx is doing here?

TW


But he is NOT claiming that they are from the Flor.

How many of the 100 items that you have which are fakes did you buy directly from Robert Marx?

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« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2009, 07:16:49 pm »
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Golddigger you keep saying that Marx only says he MAY have found the Flor. Oh well, here's an article that was in the Singapore New Paper dated June 30, 1994 whereby I was disputing this claim about any items found there but in his interview here under, 'TREASURE IS THERE, BUT CAKED IN HARDENED SAND' he clearly claims we had found it and also recovered gold figurines, tin coins and Ming Dynasty porcelain which is TOTAL BULL! Its amazing. That's the stuff he has been going around selling which supposedly came from the Flor.

Knowing you, you will most likely say this isn't proof.. am I right?
TW

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Offline GoldDigger1950
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« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2009, 07:20:15 pm »
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Don't believe everything you read, mate. That pull quote is not from Robert Marx but from another article.

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