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Offline justint538
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« Reply #110 on: February 09, 2010, 08:39:01 pm »
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First GD I was only referring to Napoleon as having made some of the harshness between us and France. I wasn't referring to him towards the Civil War. But I do understand what you are saying by all that. I was just trying to explain to RO that what I was saying refers to realistic things. He blew it out of proportion with that analogue. But I do agree with all your guidelines. And thank you for all that. Many of them are guidelines I already follow but I guess i got distracted with RO's nonsense remarks some of the time.  I'm just trying to explain to him that there is many other possibilities but I wasn't trying to say ones are more right than others. Again though, thank you.

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Offline Christian
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« Reply #111 on: February 09, 2010, 09:09:21 pm »
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Quote:Posted by bigwater
Good points all around GD, but to summarize for the people with short attention spans, Never believe anything you read or hear unless you already know it to be true, or you can independently verify it for yourself.


Well, I would like to take up this point and add that from a scientific perspective you often will not try to prove a thesis but rather to fasify it. It may not always be possible to prove a thesis to be right but once you can find just one point proving it to be wrong the thesis becomes irelevant.

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« Reply #112 on: February 09, 2010, 09:53:51 pm »
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Thank you Christian! Those were the words I was looking for. Sorry i couldn't get that out but thats what I was trying to say.

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« Reply #113 on: February 09, 2010, 10:24:12 pm »
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You are welcome. Nevertheless I think that criticism should be offered in a civil, fair and friendly. While people may and will hve different oppinions one shouldn't put down each other. I think it is okay to try to prove something look but it is not okay to try and make someone look bad Smiley

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« Reply #114 on: February 09, 2010, 10:46:52 pm »
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I'm not certain I agree with that, but I won't argue the point other than to make a simple analogy.  In the northern hemisphere now, people are complaining about how cold it is.  Cold, as a physical measurement, doesn't exist.  Cold is simply an absence of heat.  Remove the heat and you describe it as cold, but cold doesn't exist as a real property in the physical world no matter how much you have to bundle up to avoid it.  The same thing applies when trying to prove that something is false.  False is simply the absence of truth.  It's either true, which can be factually confirmed, or the basis for it's validity is diminished (it's heat removed)  because it can't be proven to be true.  Once you've eliminated all of the possibilities of it being true, by it's very nature the fact that it couldn't be true becomes a truth in itself.  This is the very reason we classify phisical concepts as "laws" or as "theories".  Laws can be proven and cannot be disproven.  Theories cannot be proven, but neither can they be disproven.  False doesn't exist any more that cold does.

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« Last Edit: February 09, 2010, 11:03:50 pm by bigwater »
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Anybody who says "it can't be done" will usually be interrupted by somebody who is already doing it.

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« Reply #115 on: February 09, 2010, 10:59:34 pm »
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Hello Ron,

I do not fully agee on this with you. A theorie which can be falsified just in one aspect is not a valid theorie. We musn't confused physical facts for impressions or feelings. The feeling of coldness depends on various effects. Effects which are beyond an individuals conscience and which need to be treated from a psychological, sociological and biological perspective. What a person feels or rather believes to feel is not a genuine value hence but mainly a psychological and sociological construction.

But when we take a look at history that is e.g. true events it can clearly (from an omniscient perspective) be said if they a true or fulse. E.g. speaking of treasure: Let's take a treasure from a robbery ... if we can disprove that there ever was a robbery then there is no treasure from a robbery. Or if we say the is e.g. a treasure of person x as he or she brought some money to a hiding place y but person x can be proven to never have been at place y then we don't need to look further.

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Christian

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« Last Edit: February 09, 2010, 11:02:47 pm by Christian »
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« Reply #116 on: February 09, 2010, 11:45:55 pm »
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I fully understand Christian, and agree with you more than you think.  A theory will always be a theory until the facts are there to make it a law.  But when we look at if from the perspective of attempting to prove that something didn't happen rather than trying to prove what did happen, the philisophical difference becomes monumental.

Theoretically it's false that a robbery happened, but emperically it's true that it never did happen... see the difference?

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« Last Edit: February 09, 2010, 11:57:03 pm by bigwater »
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Anybody who says "it can't be done" will usually be interrupted by somebody who is already doing it.

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« Reply #117 on: February 10, 2010, 12:13:20 am »
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Hello Ron, yes I agree Smiley

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« Reply #118 on: February 10, 2010, 03:45:53 am »
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"Many of them are guidelines I already follow but I guess i got distracted with RO's nonsense remarks some of the time."

Nonsense only because a skewed version of real history cannot be validated 

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« Reply #119 on: February 10, 2010, 11:35:28 pm »
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It was validated. and like you just said it was real history. You never disproved it and I proved it. So looks like this has become a law. If you want to verify that you can ask Ron or Christian who will agree with me.

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